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Zeke Durica
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11/12/2018 9:53 PM
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There are a lot of vendors doing them now. Its the way I would go but 8000.00 seems awful high.
Check out the oceanvolt.
Zeke
I mocked up a torqeedo pod drive 5hp equivalent and I think I could have installed via do-it-yourself labor. I think it would work very well, and would fit just under the sloping rudder post. See photos. Mock up is actual dimensions of Torqeedo pod. However, the cost, including their healthy batteries, and folding prop was $8,000. Instead I went with modifying my existing Torqeedo Travel 1003 (stern mounted) by adding the remote throttle and put battery in their fabric travel bag under the cockpit seats, and added Torqeedo travel fabric cover to top of stern mounted shaft (for aesthetics). So no more sitting on stern to run motor. I can operate from anywhere in cockpit and maneuverability, while not as good as Torqeedo tiller steer, is plenty adequate for my purposes.
Tommy Heausler
REDWING #595
From: mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com [mailto:mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com] On Behalf Of Ensign Sailing Forum
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2018 10:47 PM
To: tfhse@aol.com
Subject: re: [Ensign Sailing] electric outboards <<$216907656919$>>
At ensign spars back around 2010 we did a design for an electric inboard auxiliary motor. We did the whole package for customer and electric boats did the power plant for us. In the end it was to expensive at that time. A few years later they made advancements in the power plants to the point it was much more feasible.
The latest we were sold on was the Saildrive units. Much more reasonable and simple insulations.
If your interested I would be glad to offer you any advice that could help.
Zeke.
On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 09:51 Ensign Sailing Forum <ensignsailing@ensignclass.com> wrote:
Thanks, Mike.
I was looking at the 2.5DD and thought it would perform nicely. Ours does not have a cockpit sole as such (original design), so it's an open bilge under a teak flooring grate, supported by lateral oak stringers. In fact, our Ensign would've been the first out of production in 1963, so it's not a heckuva' lot newer than a late model Electra. That open bilge raises some issues around keeping the system dry, but they don't appear to be insurmountable. We already run a bilge pump, so we'd have to fabricate a cover of sorts to keep spray, rain, spilled beverages etc. from dripping on it while under sail. Perhaps fabricating an enclosure for it would be the way to go; I assume it would need to be ventilated for motor cooling purposes.
We were discussing whether to go with a folding or conventional prop, which led us to the question of regeneration potential. If the system can regenerate under sail, of course a conventional prop would be the choice; if not, folding would likely be the way to go. Can the system regenerate? What controller do you use? We employ a Gen4 in our Ericson, and it's been very reliable.
Can't wait to see the pics of the Electra project.
Thanks again,
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
Attachment(s):
File: IMG_3333.JPG (2.1 MB) -- Address: http://s3.amazonaws.com/ClubExpressClubFiles/323935/attach/2179393_1_IMG_3333.JPG
File: IMG_3338.JPG (1.8 MB) -- Address: http://s3.amazonaws.com/ClubExpressClubFiles/323935/attach/2179393_2_IMG_3338.JPG
File: IMG_3339.JPG (1.4 MB) -- Address: http://s3.amazonaws.com/ClubExpressClubFiles/323935/attach/2179393_3_IMG_3339.JPG
File: IMG_3327.JPG (3.8 MB) -- Address: http://s3.amazonaws.com/ClubExpressClubFiles/323935/attach/2179393_4_IMG_3327.JPG
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Thomas Heausler
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11/12/2018 7:53 PM
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I mocked up a torqeedo pod drive 5hp equivalent and I think I could have installed via do-it-yourself labor. I think it would work very well, and would fit just under the sloping rudder post. See photos. Mock up is actual dimensions of Torqeedo pod. However, the cost, including their healthy batteries, and folding prop was $8,000. Instead I went with modifying my existing Torqeedo Travel 1003 (stern mounted) by adding the remote throttle and put battery in their fabric travel bag under the cockpit seats, and added Torqeedo travel fabric cover to top of stern mounted shaft (for aesthetics). So no more sitting on stern to run motor. I can operate from anywhere in cockpit and maneuverability, while not as good as Torqeedo tiller steer, is plenty adequate for my purposes. Tommy Heausler REDWING #595 From: mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com [mailto:mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com] On Behalf Of Ensign Sailing Forum
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2018 10:47 PM
To: tfhse@aol.com
Subject: re: [Ensign Sailing] electric outboards <<$216907656919$>> At ensign spars back around 2010 we did a design for an electric inboard auxiliary motor. We did the whole package for customer and electric boats did the power plant for us. In the end it was to expensive at that time. A few years later they made advancements in the power plants to the point it was much more feasible. The latest we were sold on was the Saildrive units. Much more reasonable and simple insulations. If your interested I would be glad to offer you any advice that could help.
Thanks, Mike.
I was looking at the 2.5DD and thought it would perform nicely. Ours does not have a cockpit sole as such (original design), so it's an open bilge under a teak flooring grate, supported by lateral oak stringers. In fact, our Ensign would've been the first out of production in 1963, so it's not a heckuva' lot newer than a late model Electra. That open bilge raises some issues around keeping the system dry, but they don't appear to be insurmountable. We already run a bilge pump, so we'd have to fabricate a cover of sorts to keep spray, rain, spilled beverages etc. from dripping on it while under sail. Perhaps fabricating an enclosure for it would be the way to go; I assume it would need to be ventilated for motor cooling purposes.
We were discussing whether to go with a folding or conventional prop, which led us to the question of regeneration potential. If the system can regenerate under sail, of course a conventional prop would be the choice; if not, folding would likely be the way to go. Can the system regenerate? What controller do you use? We employ a Gen4 in our Ericson, and it's been very reliable.
Can't wait to see the pics of the Electra project.
Thanks again,
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Steve
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11/1/2018 8:13 AM
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Very cool. Thanks, Zeke.
Before I move ahead with this project, I'll need to see how the cash reserves have held up, after we're finished with cleaning and rebuilding the first floor of our place in Port St. Joe. Hurricane Michael made a mess of it. The project would be on the costly side, and it's not necessary. But it would be really cool and a great learning experience. With all that in mind, I don't want to trouble you right now, but if I pursue this idea, I'd really appreciate your input. Thanks for the offer.
The plan is for Too Too Oh!, modified or not, to winter with us in PSJ when we retire in about a year. The first time I saw St. Joseph Bay, I thought it was just about perfect for an Ensign.
Thanks again,
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Zeke Durica
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10/28/2018 11:40 PM
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At ensign spars back around 2010 we did a design for an electric inboard auxiliary motor. We did the whole package for customer and electric boats did the power plant for us. In the end it was to expensive at that time. A few years later they made advancements in the power plants to the point it was much more feasible. The latest we were sold on was the Saildrive units. Much more reasonable and simple insulations. If your interested I would be glad to offer you any advice that could help.
Zeke.
Thanks, Mike.
I was looking at the 2.5DD and thought it would perform nicely. Ours does not have a cockpit sole as such (original design), so it's an open bilge under a teak flooring grate, supported by lateral oak stringers. In fact, our Ensign would've been the first out of production in 1963, so it's not a heckuva' lot newer than a late model Electra. That open bilge raises some issues around keeping the system dry, but they don't appear to be insurmountable. We already run a bilge pump, so we'd have to fabricate a cover of sorts to keep spray, rain, spilled beverages etc. from dripping on it while under sail. Perhaps fabricating an enclosure for it would be the way to go; I assume it would need to be ventilated for motor cooling purposes.
We were discussing whether to go with a folding or conventional prop, which led us to the question of regeneration potential. If the system can regenerate under sail, of course a conventional prop would be the choice; if not, folding would likely be the way to go. Can the system regenerate? What controller do you use? We employ a Gen4 in our Ericson, and it's been very reliable.
Can't wait to see the pics of the Electra project.
Thanks again,
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Steve
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10/28/2018 5:18 PM
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Understood.
Thanks, Mike.
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Mike Gunning
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10/28/2018 12:14 PM
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Regeneration is a standard feature in the system. We do not know the exact regeneration capacity of a specific boat as it is impacted by: propeller diameter, hull length, hull form factor, propeller position, etc. We therefore give the sailor the ability to increase or decrease the regeneration setting to max or min the regeneration at that specific point of sail. This is important if you are cruising to Hawaii from San Francisco and will be living off the power generated under sail.
Now for the truth of our excellent little boats. Regeneration begins at about 5kts and is very bankable from about 6kts. The speed limitations of the Ensign and Electra from it hull LWL does not make it a reasonable boat to generate power under sail. Regeneration is for the 40ft + cruiser who can generate 400w to over 2kW for the catamaran. There is no reasonable top end to the regeneration but you do not want to generate more than you can store or use. That becomes a question of how much power do you need for house use and how many blenders can you run at the same time.
Mike Gunning
Electric Yacht Pacific
Mike@electricyachtpacific.com
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Steve
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10/28/2018 11:56 AM
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Hi again, Mike
I just looked again and saw something that I had missed: programmable regeneration. What's programmable about the capability?
Thanks,
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Steve
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10/28/2018 11:49 AM
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Thanks, Mike.
I was looking at the 2.5DD and thought it would perform nicely. Ours does not have a cockpit sole as such (original design), so it's an open bilge under a teak flooring grate, supported by lateral oak stringers. In fact, our Ensign would've been the first out of production in 1963, so it's not a heckuva' lot newer than a late model Electra. That open bilge raises some issues around keeping the system dry, but they don't appear to be insurmountable. We already run a bilge pump, so we'd have to fabricate a cover of sorts to keep spray, rain, spilled beverages etc. from dripping on it while under sail. Perhaps fabricating an enclosure for it would be the way to go; I assume it would need to be ventilated for motor cooling purposes.
We were discussing whether to go with a folding or conventional prop, which led us to the question of regeneration potential. If the system can regenerate under sail, of course a conventional prop would be the choice; if not, folding would likely be the way to go. Can the system regenerate? What controller do you use? We employ a Gen4 in our Ericson, and it's been very reliable.
Can't wait to see the pics of the Electra project.
Thanks again,
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Zeke Durica
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10/27/2018 12:53 PM
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Speaking of the Electra I have 2 sets of brand new tinted plexiglass for the large ports. I would be glad to sell them for a great price.
Zeke
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Mike Gunning
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10/26/2018 3:36 PM
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I am going to post some additional pictures and what we did and are doing. I also have access to a number of ensigns that are part of a fleet used by a local university but until I get to measure them, I am still in the dark as to set up. The Electra is very easy for the motor but the cutting out the keel, glassing in the tube, installing the shaft, cutlass bearing, and packing gland is not for the faint of heart. It is not rocket science but taking a saws all to the keel is a leap of faith.
For the ensign I would recommend the direct drive version of our system. It is much smaller and will likely fit under the cockpit sole (is there a cockpit sole?). These are the descriptions of these two options:
https://electricyachtpacific.com/shop?olsPage=products%2Fquiettoprque-25dd-24v-air-cooled-system-dir
https://electricyachtpacific.com/shop?olsPage=products%2Fquiettoprque-50-48v-air-cooled-system
Mike Gunning
Electric Yacht Pacific
Mike@electricyachtpacific.com
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Steve
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10/26/2018 3:09 PM
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Mike,
Do you happen to have the documentation and pics from that project ready yet? I'd love to see them, especially after talking with out local--and very good--boatwright today. I mentioned your project and how cool it would be to outfit our Ensign similarly. He started to salivate.
Thanks,
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Steve
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9/4/2018 9:51 AM
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I forgot to mention that we use VC17 on our rudder and hull. The boat is in the water (Lake Erie) from May to Nov., and algae buildup is an issue, hence the VC17.
I don't know if these products would be appropriate applications for a rudder, but perhaps a barrier coat or bilge coat would work. Someone with more experience than I have with these products would likely know better.
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Steve
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9/4/2018 7:53 AM
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Now there's a project! A few friends and I have often discussed how cool an electric inboard would be, if for no other reason than the radically improved aesthetics created by no outboard hanging off the transom. Of course there are other reasons as well. But we never figured out the propeller positioning, relative to the rudder post; we haven't thought the rudder itself to be a problem as a cutout in it for the prop seems feasible, but that rudder post is an issue.
My wife Kathy and I also have a 27 Ericson with a 48v electric unit powering it, and it's great: quiet, efficient, no flammables on board, loads of torque, very low maintenance, etc. Extended range is the only drawback as it'll run out of electricity at full charge much faster than a diesel will run out of a full tank of fuel, but that hasn't been an issue for our purposes.
Can't wait to see documentation. Thanks!
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Mike Gunning
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8/29/2018 9:54 AM
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This is slightly different than the outboard discussion but I wanted to share this project as it may be of interest to some of you.
Mike
Electric propulsion for Pearson Electra
Well the hot summer, health issues and family matters have delayed the project some. We have abandoned he electric outboard as the weight was too heavy. We will still test the 6kW outboard but it will be removed an not used except as a demo platform. (note that a 4kW motor will push this boat with good authority)
The inboard system has been specked out and positioned in the boat behind the steps and mounted in the open access cutout out on the small platform under the steps. The motor has the shaft and propeller pulley below the hatch and now aligns up with a 12 inch cutout at the end of the keel that will house a 10 X 8 X 3 blade propeller.. (note a 2 blade would be appropriate for an ensign.)
The shaft is at a very low angle of less than 15% and the propeller cut out is only in the keel with the rudder in its original angled position. The top of the cut out is longer than the bottom and the propeller, at center, will fit about 4 inches from the front of the rudder, at the bottom about 2 inches and at the top about 6 inches,
I have ordered a 7/8 inch shaft of 26 inches and a G10 fiberglass tube that will hold the bearing. We are not using a stern bearing housing at the recommendation of several boat builders. The bearing will be mounted directly into the tube with a little portion of the tube extending into the opening to allow set screws to hold the bearing in place. A traditional packing gland will be mounted on the inboard side of the tube. We are using the traditional packing gland rather than dripless as the boat will be out of the water most of the time..
The rudder will then be remounted after a small bit of reconditioning with new all threads screws replacing the old one. The rudder will then have a new coat of high gloss finish - can anyone make a recommendation for what to put on the rudder for a boat that will live on the trailer and spend only two weeks at a time in the water?
I have documented the entire project and will be sharing pictures with this group along with the Ensign user group.
Mike
Electric Yacht Pacific
www.electricyachtpacific.com
Mike Gunning
Electric Yacht Pacific
Mike@electricyachtpacific.com
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Ted Genard, Volare
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8/26/2018 12:30 PM
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We have this same O/B. Power to spare. But for charging we use one of these. Bought it at Defender but don’t see it listed here anymore. Great unit! Just clip it on to the battery and lay it on the cabin top. That simple. 15 volts when the sun is bright.
Ted Genard Volare #512
A little late to the party here, but this is a post about the same topic from back in January:
"I know of one outboard that is a pull start and will charge a battery: a 6hp Tohatsu SailPro. It would take forever and a day to charge a flat battery with it; in fact, I don't know that it ever would. But it will keep a battery that is undergoing standard use topped off. They're heavy, a little over 60 pounds, but they do the job well, are quite reliable, and not as heavy as an electric start would be. They also have a separate fuel talk (standard with the motor is a 3gal), which may suit your intended purposes better than a small internal tank. We keep the tank under the port bench. It's a four stroke engine, so it would probably run for a week on 3gal at six knots, which is about half throttle or a tad more. We've never used a full tank in an entire 6 month season, which involves mostly just out and back in from the marina, with a few considerably longer evening motors from time to time when the wind dies on Lake Erie.
The only thing I don't like about the motor is the weight, which the charging capability doesn't offset for us because we typically don't run the motor long enough to take advantage of it. I'm considering an electric, but it's an expensive experiment."
Someone said that small Evinrudes are also made by Tohatsu; while I didn't know that, I'm pretty sure that all Mercs and Nissans 25hp and under are made by Tohatsu, and the Tohatsu is typically less expensive than the same hp motor from the other two companies.
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Steve
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8/26/2018 12:06 PM
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A little late to the party here, but this is a post about the same topic from back in January:
"I know of one outboard that is a pull start and will charge a battery: a 6hp Tohatsu SailPro. It would take forever and a day to charge a flat battery with it; in fact, I don't know that it ever would. But it will keep a battery that is undergoing standard use topped off. They're heavy, a little over 60 pounds, but they do the job well, are quite reliable, and not as heavy as an electric start would be. They also have a separate fuel talk (standard with the motor is a 3gal), which may suit your intended purposes better than a small internal tank. We keep the tank under the port bench. It's a four stroke engine, so it would probably run for a week on 3gal at six knots, which is about half throttle or a tad more. We've never used a full tank in an entire 6 month season, which involves mostly just out and back in from the marina, with a few considerably longer evening motors from time to time when the wind dies on Lake Erie.
The only thing I don't like about the motor is the weight, which the charging capability doesn't offset for us because we typically don't run the motor long enough to take advantage of it. I'm considering an electric, but it's an expensive experiment."
Someone said that small Evinrudes are also made by Tohatsu; while I didn't know that, I'm pretty sure that all Mercs and Nissans 25hp and under are made by Tohatsu, and the Tohatsu is typically less expensive than the same hp motor from the other two companies.
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Bill Maloney
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8/4/2018 8:39 PM
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John,
I think my 5 hp 2 cycle Merc is a little older, and it would be perfect if not for its idiosyncrasies. The ability to connect an external tank is also an important feature for my use.
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Bill Maloney
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8/4/2018 8:34 PM
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Ted & Karin,
That is interesting about all those brands made by a single company, and same weight for the 4,5,6. I'll probably get one of those.
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John Cutler
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8/4/2018 12:27 PM
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Bill
I have 2000-2 cycle, 4 hp Mercury. It starts every time and is quite adequate to power my Ensign when we take the 17 mile passage from HYC to Double Bayou.
I do not have it on the boat when racing.
John Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhoneOn Saturday, August 4, 2018, 8:19 AM, Ensign Sailing Forum <ensignsailing@ensignclass.com> wrote: Great review, Fran! It seems I can forget about the Torqueedo for the Ensign. Too bad, because it seemed to have a lot going for it vis a vis the loud, heavy, hard to start gas outboards. Oh well.
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Ted Genard, Volare
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8/4/2018 11:37 AM
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We just got a Tohatsu 6 hp 4 stroke. Here’s the interesting rub. The Mercury, Nissan and Evinrude small engines are in fact all Tohatsus. The only difference between the 4, 5 and 6 hp is the carburetor jetting, They are all the identical engine coming in at close to 60 lbs. We went for the ultra long shaft, remote fuel tank only. We’ve been paying hell starting it. After a lot of harangue messing with it, phone time with Tohatsu and kindness of a dealer we finally observed we were not pulling it fast enough to spin the magneto enough for a good spark. I pray that’s the end of it. Otherwise the engine is powerful and I’m sure will push the boat to hull speed in a variety of conditions. The main negative is the weight. The 4 stroke is sooooo much smoother and a heck of a lot quieter than the old Mariner 2 stroke we replaced. You had to shout in the cockpit when the throttle was open! Nasty. Just wish a lighter engine had that push.
Ted & Karin Genard
Volare #512
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