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Ensign Sailing Forum

Shroud Attachment Hardware
Stephen Still


Hi All:


I was on a tack in strong wind yesterday and I saw that opposite upper shroud was way too lose. RIg had been tightened earlier in the season - so rig had loosened through use.


Hopefully you can see attached photo on hardware that attaches shrouds to the deck.


1) Is this hardware standard to Ensigns? The shroud wire terminates in a female connection that leads to a male-male piece. My other boats had a male shroud ending that went into standard female-female turnbuckle. I liked this much better.


2) What is the proper way to tighten and secure the current set up?


3) is there a way to replace all of this without getting new shrouds?


Thanks much

Steve


James Knape
Hi,  my ensign 1576 has the exact same set up. Not all boats had them , but I like them, I think they are better than the open body turnbuckles , until you have to replace them , then cost will be more. Mine are 50 plus years old and in great shape.  Take care not to bend them or get dirt in them.  To adjust I use a short crescent wrench so I can do complete circles without hitting the  adjacent shroud, and a butter knife or thin flat blade screw driver to keep shroud from spinning. This all you need if they spin freely. If they don't spin freely you need to lube them and carefully free up, a small amount of heat from a torch might help . Once free, put a light amount  of silicone grease on threads or tefgel. 

To adjust, make sure you start out with both upper shrouds equal length. I put a steel tape on the main halyard and pull it up to with in 6 inches of top of mast. Then measure down to the same spots port and starboard toe rail or winch tops. And get top of mast centered to better than 1/ 8 inch.  One method is to measure back equally from bow fitting and make a mark on each toe rail near the shrouds. Then use this mark as your reference. Try a few marks as the boat was not built with perfect symmetry.  Easiest with boom off, but if you leave it on make sure it's loose and centered.  Leave forward and lowers loose while you do initial equalling off upper shrouds. Get them just firm by hand and an extra two turns tighter from there.  Then sight up mast to see if it's straight, adjust as needed.   then tighten forward lowers to make a straight mast. To sight a straight mast ,pull main halyard to the slot at the front end of boom. You look at the the spreaders and want to see the halyard centered with the slot of the mast at the spreaders.  Leave aft lowers completely loose at this point. Continue tightening uppers and forward lowers a turn at a time, counting turns so everything stays equal length. Probably 5 or six turns from when they became hand tight, but each boat is different. Sail makers Wil recommend 35 to 40 on a loose gauge if you have the right one.  Once tight , re check for straightness, and adjust with lower shrouds. When correct you can pull on the stabord upper shrouds and see the top of mast bend to starboard x number of inches. Pull on the port upper with the same force and it should deflect to port exactly the same. This is when you know everything is equal side to side. After all this tighten the aft lowers to just firm by hand then back off a turn or two.  

You can pin them in place with new stainless steel cotter pins . If you are happy with your work, get a pair of calipers and measure  the the threaded length, write it down and then it's easy to re peat next year.   One modification I do is skip the cotter pins and use good electrical tape to keep the adjustment from changing. I am fresh water use only and don't recommend this for salt water as tape leaves the threads wet and causes corrosion.      

Stephen Still

Hi James


Thanks so much for your informative reply. Very comprehensive! I feel a lot more confident about tuning the rig now.


A remaining question is that I wasnt sure where to feed the cotter pins. There is a small hole in male-male piece. Would have to be a really small pin. But if electric tape works for you instead, I like that a lot better. I'm in fresh water too.


This forum is great! Such a helpful crew.


Steve

James Knape
Hi Steve.  Yes it's a small cotter pin you need to locate. They make em, and another option is stainless steel safety wire which I have used and need for the spreader tips as they should be did assembled every now and then to inspect.    If after you get it all tuned  it goes soft again it might mean  your mast step is rotten and sagging. About half of all Ensigns have needed to fix the mast step. It will be pretty obvious if it's soft as you can see the floor move as you snug up the wires. 


Tim Moll
Take a good look at your chain plates and make sure your not pulling them up thru the deck.

Sent from my iPad

Zeke Durica
Just an FYI. The reason the cabin floors,bunks,and bulkheads in the original boats built by Pearson didn't last. Was although the design was very good Pearson didn't take the time to seal the inside of these parts since it was a production boats. So if any water got into those areas it never could dry out and start to rot. 
When we built the boats we had the time to seal both surfaces. If Pearson had we wouldn't be replacing a lot of them. 
So what ever material you use take a few minutes to seal both surfaces with a layer of cloth or just resin. I would do cusa also to give it a little extra strength so it doesn't bend. Marine ply sealed and glassed on both sides will out last all of us. 

Zeke. 

Robin & Lizette Durr

I also replaced my mast step. What I ended up using was 4, 1 inch mahogany boards and fitting them to the curve of the hull. Painted them with wood preservative and resin. The trick was getting it back to the same level so the advice on taking measurements before and after is really good. Would have saved me a bunch of time and worry if I had taken the measurements. Was done 20+ years ago and so far so good.


Robin

Thomas Heausler

Shrouds loosening may be a symptom of decaying wood below mast step.

Tommy Heausler

#595 Redwing

 

Bud Brown
Hello Stephen,

To check if your cabin sole (under the mast step) is soft...

Ttie a string, fairly taut, between the forestay and the backstay, so that it is horizontal, passes reasonably close to the cabin top and passes without interference from cabin top hardware other than the mast. Use a Loos gauge to tighten the uppers (equally, as always) to 35, then draw a pencil mark on the mast where the string touches. Then, put two or three more turns on each upper, which normally takes the upper tensions to 40 Loos units or above.

After the additional turns, compare the position of the taut string against the mast to the drawn pencil mark. If the additional tension has moved the string significantly above the drawn pencil mark (3/4" or more), the mast and the sole are quite likely moving down in the boat and your boat could very well have a soft sole. 

To further check, measure the tension in the uppers. If the sole is soft, there will be a point at which the tension in the uppers will not get much tighter without a surprising amount of effort. More tension is just pressing the mast base deeper into the bilge.

With a soft sole, the boat will not hold rig tension, which starts out as a performance issue but when left unaddressed can result in much worse experiences.

Another technique to detect a soft sole is to place a straight edge athwartship and measure vertical distance as more tension is added to the uppers.

Anyone who starts a sail with a tight rig and notices really, really loose leeward uppers swinging in the breeze while sailing, perhaps should check to ensure their rig is able to hold tension using the methods above.

Best regards,

Bud Brown
#1085

Stephen Still

Thanks Bud - and others


I'm away for a bit - but will do tests on cabin sole upon return. I have dealt with wood rot on my prior C&C.


Assuming some sole repairs are in order, appreciate if you can point me to other posts that have dealt with and fixed. I don't race so I'd be looking at a "good enough for now" approach with a limited rebuild if possible.


thanks again for outpouring of great advice

Steve

Jonathan Simpson
Years ago I put together an article on mast step rebuilding, which is in the Archives.  Vic, can you direct folks to that article?

Jon Simpson
E160
Joseph & Anne Graul

Jonathon,

I hope you enjoyed Pentwater and the tow was uneventful.

My floor is finally complete.   I paid someone at our club to do it.   He did not use the coosa board and I did not want to argue with him.   I now need to position the mast step which I got from Ensign spars.  Some before and after pictures are attached.

I have the centerline marked.  Should I just locate it where the old step was?

Jody

 

 

 

Jonathan Simpson
Marking the center line was good, just leaving the fore and aft placement.  If the boat is level, you can drop a plumb bob from the partners to get that spot.

Jon
Joseph & Anne Graul

Jon,

That is what I thought to do.   Thank you.  It is on a trailer and I should be able to get it level.

Jody

 

Vic Roberts

Jon,

 

I cannot find your article on mast step rebuilding.  Do you perhaps remember the title?

 

Years ago, Bruce Blackie of Fleet 72 at Saratoga Lake wrote an excellent article on mast step replacement. That article is available on the Saratoga Lake Sailing Club website using this link:

 

https://sailsaratoga.org/ensign-step-replacement

 

Vic Roberts, Webmaster

 

Steve Wnuk

A mast step repair was performed on Vulcan, Ensign 631, this winter. Attached is the work summary provided to the owner at completion of the repair. While not as detailed as the Sarasota article, it may be useful to ECA members contemplating the same type of work.


Steve Wnuk

947

Vic Roberts

Steve,

 

Can I post this to the ECA website?  Are there any Copyright issues?

 

Vic Roberts

 

Steve Wnuk

Vic - No issues. I wrote the summary and cleared with boat owner and shop before posting.


Steve Wnuk

# 947

Vic Roberts

Steve,

 

The document has been posted to the ECA website under Library/Boat Maintenance and Repairs

 

Vic Roberts

 

Robert Panico
That was a great post. Going to check my mast step! 
Anna Gorbold
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Anna Gorbold
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