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Ted Genard, Volare
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12/22/2018 3:50 PM
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GREAT STORIES STEVE! And Merry Christmas to you all too!
Ted Genard Volare #512
That's the same motor we're using, Ted. No complaints at all.
It was an interesting season. The coincidence of decent conditions and available time seemed sparse, but we did get in some nice sails, the most memorable being night sails bookending the season. We were fortunate enough to catch the May and September full moons with an open schedule, clear skies, and just the right amount of wind. I particularly liked the September set up this year because the equinox and the full moon were only off by a day, so just as the sun was setting that big harvest moon was rising. That turned into a memorable late night!
It was a pleasure sailing Too Too Oh! after all the restoration work of the previous year and a half. Sitting back and enjoying the fruits of that effort was quite satisfying. She always sailed well, of course, and looked good, but now she sails well and looks fantastic. We're really glad we went with the bronze cleats and the Awlgrip paint.
Hope your entire holiday season and winter go well. Merry Christmas to you and your entire family.
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Steve
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12/22/2018 2:35 PM
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That's the same motor we're using, Ted. No complaints at all.
It was an interesting season. The coincidence of decent conditions and available time seemed sparse, but we did get in some nice sails, the most memorable being night sails bookending the season. We were fortunate enough to catch the May and September full moons with an open schedule, clear skies, and just the right amount of wind. I particularly liked the September set up this year because the equinox and the full moon were only off by a day, so just as the sun was setting that big harvest moon was rising. That turned into a memorable late night!
It was a pleasure sailing Too Too Oh! after all the restoration work of the previous year and a half. Sitting back and enjoying the fruits of that effort was quite satisfying. She always sailed well, of course, and looked good, but now she sails well and looks fantastic. We're really glad we went with the bronze cleats and the Awlgrip paint.
Hope your entire holiday season and winter go well. Merry Christmas to you and your entire family.
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Ted Genard, Volare
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12/17/2018 11:25 PM
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Hi Steve,
Thanks for the check up. For our first season we ran loose on the aft lowers. Everything loosened up as the season progressed but we didn’t retune. The head stay didn’t seem to sag and I never really cranked down on the backstay fully. The aft lowers were loose statically and only took tension on the windward side though I never noticed any falling off of the mast. Uppers and forward lowers snug but not over tight by any means. Overall the rig seemed very forgiving. We had O/B issues with the old one and then with the new one we got. Turned out to be the fuel bulb in the line! All covered by warranty. Like the new mill. A Tohatsu 6hp Sail Pro. Pushed her up to hull speed at about 1/4 throttle it seems! What you need for the tides around here. Weather this season was atrocious. Lots of rain and also when it was hot, too hot. Didn’t get out as much as I had wanted but that will change next year I hope. My wife is retired now so I’ll have ready crew. Volare is sweet for sure and we’ve gotten compliments on her several times. We got the right boat! How was your season?
Merry Christmas!
Ted Genard
Volare #512
How did your tuning work out this season, Ted? I was thinking about that the other day when it was warm and I was in the barn puttering around with Too Too Oh!
Merry Christmas, and the best of the holiday season to you.
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Steve
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12/17/2018 9:06 PM
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How did your tuning work out this season, Ted? I was thinking about that the other day when it was warm and I was in the barn puttering around with Too Too Oh!
Merry Christmas, and the best of the holiday season to you.
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Ted Genard, Volare
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5/19/2018 8:02 AM
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I wire brushed it to a nice dark bronze patina. Coarse wheel to get the green chunks off and very fine to buff it. Not going to polish it. It sure spins nice though after overhaul. Spent about $50 for a spare handle (same logo as on the winch "South Coast”) that’s in better shape than the one that came with the boat. My friend is turning a new handle for that one.
Ted #512 Volare
That cabin top winch will polish up beautifully. Of, course, then it's either keeping it polished or watching it slowly tarnish back to the way it was.... Why do we do these things to ourselves?!
Steve, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Steve
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5/19/2018 7:46 AM
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That cabin top winch will polish up beautifully. Of, course, then it's either keeping it polished or watching it slowly tarnish back to the way it was.... Why do we do these things to ourselves?!
Steve, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Ted Genard, Volare
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5/10/2018 8:31 PM
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No worry Steve. Thanks for the info. BTW since the boat is so new to us and has been covered all winter I discovered the cleats were aluminum. The old cabin top winch is bronze. I think what I’m going to do is set the length of the headstay at the max allowed 26’ 3 3/4” (interesting dimension). I’ll play with the mast step to get a pretty vertical or slightly aft rake and set the loads as you stated. I won’t be able to measure headstay tension but if it’s at least stiff enough for the foil to operate properly I can get all the tension I need with the backstay adjuster from 22 lbs on up to 3” max allowed take up to bend the mast. Once set up then it will be a matter of seeing how much weather helm there is. If excessive for any reason I’ll move the step aft and try and tune it out. Should be interesting. We’re cutting the backstay tomorrow to install the tensioner.
Sorry about the slow reply, Ted, but here's where I start with tensions. I'll include the headstay tension from before I installed the roller furler. I still use the backstay tension but was careful to ensure the same length headstays (pre and post roller furler, that is). I start with the backstay because it's easier to get the mast rake and the stay tension right while the shrouds are still loose.
Headstay, 35 lbs.
Forward lowers, 35 lbs.
Uppers, 35 lbs.
Aft lowers, 30 lbs.
Backstay, 22 lbs.
I don't race Too Too Oh!, never have, but I looked in the 2017 annual report, and it appears from Part 2, Section 9, Subsection L that roller furlers are permitted; there are six rules regarding hardware/attachment and sail size within the subsection. As far as the mainsail goes, Part 2, Section 9, Subsection G, Number 2 is pretty specific about the batten lengths: top and bottom 25", and middle two 27". I didn't see any explicit prohibition of full battens but, given the specificity in number 2,, it seems that they'd be prohibited by implication. You might want to check with your fleet captain on that one. Interestingly enough, while looking up those mainsail rules, I found that our brand new loose footed main is illegal. It doesn't matter to me, but there it is in black and white: "No loose footed or miter cut sails shall be used" (Part 2, Section 9, Subsection G, Number 3). That sentence and the one above it left no doubt in my mind! :-)
Gotta' love those bronze cleats! I'll bet they look great on your boat
Steve, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Steve
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5/9/2018 10:01 PM
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Sorry about the slow reply, Ted, but here's where I start with tensions. I'll include the headstay tension from before I installed the roller furler. I still use the backstay tension but was careful to ensure the same length headstays (pre and post roller furler, that is). I start with the backstay because it's easier to get the mast rake and the stay tension right while the shrouds are still loose.
Headstay, 35 lbs.
Forward lowers, 35 lbs.
Uppers, 35 lbs.
Aft lowers, 30 lbs.
Backstay, 22 lbs.
I don't race Too Too Oh!, never have, but I looked in the 2017 annual report, and it appears from Part 2, Section 9, Subsection L that roller furlers are permitted; there are six rules regarding hardware/attachment and sail size within the subsection. As far as the mainsail goes, Part 2, Section 9, Subsection G, Number 2 is pretty specific about the batten lengths: top and bottom 25", and middle two 27". I didn't see any explicit prohibition of full battens but, given the specificity in number 2,, it seems that they'd be prohibited by implication. You might want to check with your fleet captain on that one. Interestingly enough, while looking up those mainsail rules, I found that our brand new loose footed main is illegal. It doesn't matter to me, but there it is in black and white: "No loose footed or miter cut sails shall be used" (Part 2, Section 9, Subsection G, Number 3). That sentence and the one above it left no doubt in my mind! :-)
Gotta' love those bronze cleats! I'll bet they look great on your boat
Steve, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Ted Genard, Volare
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4/30/2018 3:06 PM
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Sure Steve, be happy to get any info. My biggest consideration is a balanced helm and optimum handling. We won’t be racing this season if any. Which leads to another question about race “legal” sails. My main was cruise built and has two full length battens. Legal? Also I assume the roller genny is legal?
Just got the new Volume 57 #1 and am looking forward to reading the Too Too Oh article! We’ve got three bronze horn cleats and winch on the cabin top. They are not going anywhere!
Ted
We have the same furler, Ted, and I use a Loos gauge as well. I've found 22 lbs. on the backstay to be a decent starting point, and that's with the genoa and main on and furled. That tension results in maybe a 10 degree rake, maybe a little less.
I'm experimenting this year, after reading some our class members' tweaking tips for racing, and have moved the shoe forward about an inch to allow for a little more rake angle and, hopefully, a little more boat speed. If I'm thinking about it correctly, the backstay tension should stay the same but, if things don't look and feel right, I'll fidget around until I get it right. Hoping to get the boat wet this coming weekend, so I'll find out pretty soon.
I'd be happy to share the upper and lower stay tensions that I've found to work well, if you're interested in them.
Hope that helps,
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Steve
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4/30/2018 11:46 AM
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We have the same furler, Ted, and I use a Loos gauge as well. I've found 22 lbs. on the backstay to be a decent starting point, and that's with the genoa and main on and furled. That tension results in maybe a 10 degree rake, maybe a little less.
I'm experimenting this year, after reading some our class members' tweaking tips for racing, and have moved the shoe forward about an inch to allow for a little more rake angle and, hopefully, a little more boat speed. If I'm thinking about it correctly, the backstay tension should stay the same but, if things don't look and feel right, I'll fidget around until I get it right. Hoping to get the boat wet this coming weekend, so I'll find out pretty soon.
I'd be happy to share the upper and lower stay tensions that I've found to work well, if you're interested in them.
Hope that helps,
Steve Mohr, #220
Too Too Oh!
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Ted Genard, Volare
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4/30/2018 9:30 AM
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Thanks Vic, My furler is a CDI Flex Furl. It has an integral halliard thus no loading on bearings. It is a one piece PVC extrusion with no seams. Pretty slick, looking forward to using it. I would think any furling system would not operate optimally with a slack backstay though.
Ted
Ted, I can’t help with the proper backstay tension but do have two other comments. First, I found that the Harken roller furler on my boat did not operate smoothly if the backstay was slack. If the backstay was slack, either while sailing or when the boat was on the mooring, I would have to temporarily tighten he backstay when I wanted to let the jib out or roll it in. Second, Harken recommends that the jib halyard not be tightened too much when using the furler. Not only is high tension not needed, since the foil keeps the luff straight, but too much tension can damage the bearings on the swivel and drum. Vic Roberts #2032 - Journey Need tips on setting headstay tension with roller furling. I have a Loos gauge but it's of little use on a foil covered headstay. Most tuning guides I've seen give a tension for the headstay that is controlled by the back stay. I have a 12:1 backstay adjuster going on and want to be able to set it to "neutral" for what would be a static rig. I realize the mast step and over all adjustment of shrouds etc. has some yeas nays and varying opinions and am not as concerned with them to a point as I can measure tensions and feel out the helm for too much weather / lee and adjust accordingly. I just don't want the headstay too loose or too tight when the rig is static. Realize rules say 3" max adjustment on backstay. Just need the starting point.
Thanks,
Ted Genard
Volare #512
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Vic Roberts
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4/30/2018 9:00 AM
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Ted, I can’t help with the proper backstay tension but do have two other comments. First, I found that the Harken roller furler on my boat did not operate smoothly if the backstay was slack. If the backstay was slack, either while sailing or when the boat was on the mooring, I would have to temporarily tighten he backstay when I wanted to let the jib out or roll it in. Second, Harken recommends that the jib halyard not be tightened too much when using the furler. Not only is high tension not needed, since the foil keeps the luff straight, but too much tension can damage the bearings on the swivel and drum. Vic Roberts #2032 - Journey From: mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com <mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com> On Behalf Of Ensign Sailing Forum
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 8:08 AM
To: vic@victorroberts.com
Subject: [Ensign Sailing] Tuning with roller furling <<$195732465250$>> Need tips on setting headstay tension with roller furling. I have a Loos gauge but it's of little use on a foil covered headstay. Most tuning guides I've seen give a tension for the headstay that is controlled by the back stay. I have a 12:1 backstay adjuster going on and want to be able to set it to "neutral" for what would be a static rig. I realize the mast step and over all adjustment of shrouds etc. has some yeas nays and varying opinions and am not as concerned with them to a point as I can measure tensions and feel out the helm for too much weather / lee and adjust accordingly. I just don't want the headstay too loose or too tight when the rig is static. Realize rules say 3" max adjustment on backstay. Just need the starting point.
Thanks,
Ted Genard
Volare #512
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Ted Genard, Volare
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4/30/2018 8:05 AM
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Need tips on setting headstay tension with roller furling. I have a Loos gauge but it's of little use on a foil covered headstay. Most tuning guides I've seen give a tension for the headstay that is controlled by the back stay. I have a 12:1 backstay adjuster going on and want to be able to set it to "neutral" for what would be a static rig. I realize the mast step and over all adjustment of shrouds etc. has some yeas nays and varying opinions and am not as concerned with them to a point as I can measure tensions and feel out the helm for too much weather / lee and adjust accordingly. I just don't want the headstay too loose or too tight when the rig is static. Realize rules say 3" max adjustment on backstay. Just need the starting point.
Thanks,
Ted Genard
Volare #512
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